Franz Lehar Ungarische Fantasie Op.45

[kalliwoda]

I am not sure, if I uploaded the Sibley scan to the correct composer page:
This is in worldcat in different editions always attributed to Franz Lehar (1870-1946).
But in the Image Card Catalogs at SBB it is under Franz Lehar senior (1838-1898), with this pencilled-in comment on one of he cards here:
http://musikipac.staatsbibliothek-berli ... 1&cop=:osy

First published in 1897, at least the relatively high opus number for a 27 year old, who otherwise does not use opus numbers in his output, is strange.
Is this enough evidence to move the work to a new composer page for Franz Lehar senior?

[steltz]

I agree with your logic, but three recordings I find have it listed under the famous Franz Lehar, and I can't find a works list for Franz Lehar Sr. I think at best, until someone can find substantiated evidence, the solution is for you to enter your argument in the comment section of the current work page.

[cypressdome]

Hofmeister's Handbuch der Musikalischen Literatur published in 1900 separately lists the published compositions by Franz Lehar, Sr. and Jr. on page 485. The Ungarische Fantasie, Op.45 is Senior's work. The Hofmeister volume can be found here: http://imslp.org/wiki/Handbuch_der_musi ... Friedrich). Looks like the work can be moved.

Cypressdome

[steltz]

Quicker and easier than I thought it would be! Thank you, Cypressdome.

[Notenschreiber]

I am not sure, if this question is so easy. Already in Hofmeisters next tome (1906) the Fantassie op.45 appears under the name of the famous Franz Lehar, his
father is not mentioned any more. In the "Universalhandbuch der Musikliteratur" (after 1900) only a march of the military musician F. Lehar sen. is mentioned
and op.45 is assigned to Franz Lehar (junior). On the german wikipedia page of Franz Lehar one can read "Fantasie op. 45 (1935)", may be a new edition (by F. Lehar?)
In MGG the Fantasie op.45 is ascribed to Franz Lehar (junior) too.

[Notenschreiber]

I realized in addition, that the composition list of Franz Lehar sr. in Hofmeisters 1900 edition contains parts of the opera "Kukuschka", which is composed by
Franz Lehar jr. So this may be transcriptions (for piano) and editions from the father of compositions of the son. The same could be the case with op.45.

[cypressdome]

I think what causes confusion today and even back in the early 1900s is that in all likelihood after Sr.'s death in February, 1898 Franz Lehar, Jr. most likely became known simply as Franz Lehar and so in subsequent editions of the Handbuch and in Pazdírek most of Sr.'s compositions that get reprinted get listed under his more famous son simply as Franz Lehar. It would be nice to see a title page from one of Jr.'s works published during Sr.'s lifetime to see if he is actually listed as Jr. Until that happens I personally would place more weight on the evidence of the publications that were closer in time to the first publication of the Ungarische Fantasie, Op.45 in 1897 that list the work as belong to Sr.: Hofmeister's Monatsberichte, Hofmeister's Verzeichniss for 1897, and the Handbuch from 1900 which actually covers publications through 1897 (when both Jr. and Sr. were both alive and composing). The Monatsberichte listing for the work can be seen here: http://anno.onb.ac.at/cgi-content/anno- ... 049&zoom=1 (no, it doesn't list him as Sr. like it does in the Handbuch and the Verzeichniss but just a few pages away we find a work published by Jr.: http://anno.onb.ac.at/cgi-content/anno- ... 053&zoom=1).

Cypressdome

[Notenschreiber]

I agree, that the situation remains unclear. Perhaps one should have a look at
"Maria von Peteani: Franz Lehár. Seine Musik – sein Leben. Glocken-Verlag, Wien/London 1950.
Max Schönherr: Franz Lehár. Bibliographie zu Leben und Werk. Beiträge zu einer Lehár-Biographie. Wien 1970.",
but I have no easy access to this books.
But Lehar jr. was violinist , so it´s more likely, that he wrote a composition for the violin. (1888 he composed a violin concerto).
It is strange too, that some parts of the opera Kukuschka (by Lehar jr.) are listed as being from Lehar sr. in the Handbook of 1900.
Exactly the same composition ( "Russische Bauertänze aus Kukuschka"), which in the Monatsberichte of 1897 is correctly
attributed to Lehar jr., in the 1900 Handbook is attributed to Lehar sr.
Why should the attribution of op.45 be correct in this handbook? As far as I see, this is the only source with this claim.
In the Verzeichnis of 1897 we find Lehar and Lehar jr. Again the Kukuschka is listed in Lehar like op.45. It seems, that it has been
unknown, that all this compostions are from Lehar jr. The elder Lehar is widely unknow as composer, may be he composed only some marches for
his military band.

[Notenschreiber]

There is a "Werkeverzeichnis" (NV) for Lehars works. The "Ungarische Fantasie" is listed as NV 151., see
http://www.allmusic.com/artist/franz-le ... /date-asc/

[Notenschreiber]

After all I am nearly sure, that the Ungarische Fantasie op.45 is a composition from Franz Lehar jr. I would like to collect the arguments.

1. Lehar jr. feels as Hungarian and speaks this language as native language, Lehar sr. is born
in eastern “Sudetenland” and speaks nearly no Hungarian. Lehar jr,. was violinist, whereas
Lehar sr. was a horn player. So it´s much more likely for the son to compose a Ungarische
Fantasie for violin as solo instrument.

2. The composition was first mentioned in “Verzeichnis der 1897 erschienenen Musikalien“.
In this volume is one composition of Lehar jr. and there are five compositions of Lehar (without Jr. or sr.) The Ungarische Fantasie is the first one of these.
The compositions 4. and the 5. are definitely from Lehar jr. There is no reason, why the other 3 should not be from Lehar jr.

3. In the “Handbuch der musikalischen Werke 1900” we find 20 entries for Lehar jun.,
8 entries for Lehar sen, and no entry for Lehar without an addition. So it seems, the
Editor wants to decide, whether a composition is from jr. or sr. All the 5 entries of the
“Verzeichnis” under Lehar occurs now under Lehar sen. The reason probably is the
simple, but false conclusion: What does not have the additional jr. must be sr.

4. In the “Handbuch der musikalischen Werke 1906” only Lehar appears, there is no longer
a discrimination between sr. and jr. It seems, that one has realized, that all the former mentioned compositions are from Lehar jr.
Nowadays the only trace of Lehar sr. as composer seems to be three marches on a cd of marches from Lehar sr and Lehar jr.

5. In 1935 a new edition of op. 45 appears under the name of the famous Franz Lehar.
If this would be an incorrect attribution, Franz Lehar would have probably filed a protest.

6. There is a “Werkeverzeichnis” for Lehar. The Ungarische Fantasie is NV 151.

So i would propose to delete the page Franz Lehar sr. and to shift the compostion to Franz Lehar.

[kalliwoda]

Sorry for not replying earlier. I just thought I would have time to check in one of the Lehar biographies early this coming week at SBB about this work. You may have noticed, that I already changed the comment on the workpage to report the conflicting entries in the Hofmeister Handbuch of 1900 and 1906. Could we wait a few days before moving the page again?

In addition to the entries in the Handbuch, which may be based on more or less accurate info by the publishers, I am also startled that the sibley scan of the 1908 Schmidl edition is a "Neue Ausgabe von P.A. Tirindelli", as a modified edition would usually not be done if the composer - especially if he is a violinist - is still alive.
I am somewhat hesitant to completely trust information on any website that does not give references and contains recognizable mistakes - like the online worklist or the wikipedia entries - at least the work could not have been composed as late as 1935 as stated there (maybe revised in 1935), and orchestra includes a flute and 2 clarinets in additon to strings, but all the later editions are apparently only for piano and violin.
Regarding your argument that Lehar jr. is the only likely author of a violin work, because his father is not a violinist - its equally possible that this work was composed for him by his father...

I don't know which publisher reprinted(?) this in 1935 (Stritzko?), but the next edition to which I have access is the 1943 Glocken-Verlag edition - and Glocken-Verlag was the publisher owned by Franz Lehar jr. to secure copyright control over his own works - Let me check this edition too and compare it to the downloaded version, before deciding on where to place this workpage.

Most likely I will move the page back to Lehar jr., if this is where Grove and MGG put the work.

[kalliwoda]

I just moved this back to Lehar Jr. - could one of the moderators delete the now defunct Lehar Sr. page - thank you.

The Hofmeister Handbuch (and the SBB card catalog following it) seems really to be the only source that assigns the Fantasie to Lehar Sr. In the 1890's Lehar Jr. actually played violin under his father's baton before becoming a military Kapellmeister himself, but from this time there also date his violin concertos and other works for violin.

Still I wonder about the "Neue Ausgabe von P.A.Tirindelli" Schmidl edition scanned by Sibley. The 1943 Glocken-Verlag edition is a completely unchanged reprint, but without any mention of the name Tirindelli.