Nocturne v. Notturno

Any posts related to the categorization and standardization of IMSLP

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NLewis
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Nocturne v. Notturno

Postby NLewis » Mon Jul 14, 2014 2:24 pm

We currently label the 18th century 'notturnos' as 'nocturnes', but they are not typically the same genre. The notturno is much closer to a serenade (and the terms were often used interchangeably in the 18th century), while the term "nocturne" as first used by John Field and later by Chopin & co is typically a solo piano work. Perhaps they should be separated.

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Re: Nocturne v. Notturno

Postby Davydov » Mon Jul 14, 2014 8:07 pm

The MLA list treats Nocturnes and Notturnos as being synonymous (even if the form itself may have evolved over time), but if they ever change their minds we can look at it again.

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Re: Nocturne v. Notturno

Postby NLewis » Tue Jul 15, 2014 6:21 am

This may be true, although we have deviated from MLA before. And I'm not sure that MLA decision is the most well considered; they really are not the same thing.

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Re: Nocturne v. Notturno

Postby Notenschreiber » Tue Jul 15, 2014 8:15 am

In MGG the two notions are also treated as synonymous, nocturne being the more modern one. Mostly used for piano pieces, but also used in other contexts like Brittens
"Nocturne for Tenor and a small orchestra" op.60, 1958. Before Field the name nocturne has been used in a compostion of H. Jadin "3 nocturnes ...p. pioanoforte et flute...
(1812).

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Re: Nocturne v. Notturno

Postby NLewis » Tue Jul 15, 2014 3:56 pm

May be true, although I assure you that the genres are very different things.

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Re: Nocturne v. Notturno

Postby Notenschreiber » Tue Jul 15, 2014 9:06 pm

The problem is the following. If you would install a category "Nocturnes", you will find "Notturnos", so called by the composer, which fit in your category of Nocturnes.
And vice versa. I see your point, but a division of all Nocturnes and Notturnos in two disjunct subsets seems not to be practicable.

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Re: Nocturne v. Notturno

Postby NLewis » Wed Jul 16, 2014 1:01 am

I'm not really suggesting to make a new category for notturnos, but the 18th century notturno is really signifigantly closer to the "serenade" genre than the 19th century "Nocturne" genre. It's unforunate that the terms are so similar but reflect entirely different genres.


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