Instrument keys on work pages

[varnis]

Would it be possible to get some clarification on the need for keying on parts, in particular on Clarinets, Horns and Trumpet. In the case of clarinets, a full key listing is needed, but in the case of Horns, is a full list necessary, since most players will transpose stubbornly anyway. Trumpets I have no idea whether players are likely to transpose at sight, but i assume that a listing is useful. Your thoughts?

[horndude77]

If playing on natural horn it's needed to know all the necessary crooks for the piece. For playing on a modern instrument it's just nice to know. It lets you know to devote some time to review some études in those keys before the rehearsals. For a conductor or an orchestra librarian it's useful information if the horn players are not able to transpose (though as a horn player it's really unavoidable and will need to be learned at some point).

For trumpets, I have known players to use different trumpets depending on the key of the piece so it is very useful information. But most of the time I think they just transpose.

[varnis]

Ive been adding the predominant key, because in some works, like Carmen for example, in the first four numbers alone, the four horns go through about 6 crook changes, and thats prohibitive to put on the work page. Suppose a piece used Horn in F, then in G, just horn in F would be used, since i assume its easy to transpose up one tone(?). Do you have a better Idea?

[Lyle Neff]

[...] Suppose a piece used Horn in F, then in G, just horn in F would be used, since i assume its easy to transpose up one tone(?). Do you have a better Idea?

Perhaps there should be possibilities like these

• Natural horn [without changing crooks, and even if played on modern valve equivalent]
  Multi-crooked horn [even if played on modern valve equivalent]
  Valve horn [in F]

[jsnfmn]

As a composer and trumpeter, I think the easiest and most consistent way to go about this is to simply list all of the keys specified in the part, regardless of how much or how little they are used, or how we think that players will be playing the parts. If we start trying to guess what the composer is thinking that the player might use to play a single part, we start getting into weird territory. As an example, how do we label the parts in Wagner and Strauss where the composer was not expecting the player to change instrument at all, but was only (sort of) attempting to keep the part appearing in the key of C? This system was at some point based in a kind of tortured logic in that putting valves down on horns and trumpets does indeed change the key of the entire instrument, but it creates some very interesting paradoxes if you try to figure out in some of these scores what key the composer though the natural, open, no valves down instrument was sounding in. This is not to even mention that there is no consistency between orchestras, or even countries on what standard practice is for this, players do what for them gives them the best sound and is most consistent, and this often involves willfully ignoring the text of the part in order to glean its spirit. I can give dozens of examples of this if anyone is interested...

I say give the players/conductors as much information as possible in the download link as is available from the part itself, they will work out how they want to play it (one instrument, multiple instruments, period instruments), we don't really need to get into that whole mess if we just put up everything that is on the part/score. Just my two cents.

[daphnis]

Seconded...from a wind player's point of view. Just my ¥0.02.