Hello. I was having a talk in the other topic ( requests - La cappriciosa - Buxhetude ) - since the subject have changed a little, I am tranfering it to here, because it´s more adequate. Sorry if this issue is already have discussed in IMSLP, I really didn´t find it, objectively.
The issue is when the publisher has the copyright of any composition, because he published that, and not the composer. Well, we have to wait some time to consider that publication in public domain, and regarding to the editor too.
Steltz ( an IMSLP user ) said me the following:
Editors:
For example, I live in a country with a life+50 law, but because the "threshold of originality" is so low, editors get the same protection as composers, so not only does the composer have to have died more than 50 years ago, but the editor(s) also have to have died more than 50 years ago.
Publicaton date:
If a work was published posthumously, then it doesn't go by the composer's/editor's death dates, it goes by publication date. Again, you have to check your specific countries laws, but a posthumous work is probably something like 70 years from publication.
My question is: we have to wait 50 years from the death of the publisher, as wrote below. But in fact, the publisher is not a single person as a composer is, the editor is a company, if I am not wrong. If the editor died 50 years ago, the company which published that composition not.
So, how must we deal with that? We have to wait 50 years from the year of that publication, or how that works?
A secundary question: if an editor published the composition X ( thinking in not having copyright problems with the composer of that work ) ,does he or it have the copyright about all publications of that work? Or just the exact publication he did?
When is the publisher who has the copyright
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pml
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Re: When is the publisher who has the copyright
I take it you mean cases where author ≠ publisher.
If the publisher has no creative input into the piece, his or her death date is completely irrelevant. Having a printing press doesn’t give you moral rights over other people’s ideas that you happen to publish. On the other hand editors with sufficient creative input can be recognised with rights often amounting to almost joint-authorship (since their input can be given the same life+50/70 year terms as the author in some jurisdictions).
So it’s not necessarily ownership of copyright that’s the issue here, unless the composer’s rights have been explicitly sold or transferred to the publisher — but even then, the author’s dates are still counted as the important ones for setting life+50/70 terms — not the publisher’ dates. If the author’s copyright protection has expired, than there may be separate rights more in the realm of a typographical copyright, or protection afforded to their presentation of a work, which is given weight in some legislative domains. For example, in the EU, scientific publications are allowed a maximum 30 year protection. That’s why, Mozart being dead 220 years, some Mozart publications (like Bärenreiter’s Neue Mozart-Ausgabe, or New Mozart Edition) are under copyright — volumes published 1986 or later are protected by a 25 year term of protection in the country of origin (Germany).
Cheers, Philip
If the publisher has no creative input into the piece, his or her death date is completely irrelevant. Having a printing press doesn’t give you moral rights over other people’s ideas that you happen to publish. On the other hand editors with sufficient creative input can be recognised with rights often amounting to almost joint-authorship (since their input can be given the same life+50/70 year terms as the author in some jurisdictions).
So it’s not necessarily ownership of copyright that’s the issue here, unless the composer’s rights have been explicitly sold or transferred to the publisher — but even then, the author’s dates are still counted as the important ones for setting life+50/70 terms — not the publisher’ dates. If the author’s copyright protection has expired, than there may be separate rights more in the realm of a typographical copyright, or protection afforded to their presentation of a work, which is given weight in some legislative domains. For example, in the EU, scientific publications are allowed a maximum 30 year protection. That’s why, Mozart being dead 220 years, some Mozart publications (like Bärenreiter’s Neue Mozart-Ausgabe, or New Mozart Edition) are under copyright — volumes published 1986 or later are protected by a 25 year term of protection in the country of origin (Germany).
Cheers, Philip
Re: When is the publisher who has the copyright
I think one of the things that might be confusing you is that there are various scenarios for who owns the copyright. Here are some, and I hope I haven't left any out:
1) A composer "assigns" his copyright to a publishing company, because that company will be selling the publication and collecting the money for it. But that doesn't mean the publishing company "owns" the copyright -- that still belongs to the composer, or his estate after he dies, up to whatever the limit is in a particular country.
2) Copyright can also belong to an editor or arranger, if he has done enough to the work to warrant copyright protection. He would still assign this to a publisher who would collect his royalties for him.
3) The publishing company can only own a copyright if they have taken something in the public domain and done something like typesetting, in a country where typesetting would qualify for protection. In this case, since a company doesn't necessarily have a death date, the term will be from publication, usually the same number of years as the after=death part of a composer's copyright, e.g. 50 years in a "life+50" scenario unless, as Philip points out, the country's laws view it as a scientific publication and those are protected for a different number of years.
4) If the publishing company is simply reprinting something in the public domain, and the country doesn't view typesetting as a copyrightable activity (or they aren't typesetting it, they are just photographically reproducing someone else's public domain edition), then the company is producing the sheet music, but has no copyright on it. It remains in the public domain.
1) A composer "assigns" his copyright to a publishing company, because that company will be selling the publication and collecting the money for it. But that doesn't mean the publishing company "owns" the copyright -- that still belongs to the composer, or his estate after he dies, up to whatever the limit is in a particular country.
2) Copyright can also belong to an editor or arranger, if he has done enough to the work to warrant copyright protection. He would still assign this to a publisher who would collect his royalties for him.
3) The publishing company can only own a copyright if they have taken something in the public domain and done something like typesetting, in a country where typesetting would qualify for protection. In this case, since a company doesn't necessarily have a death date, the term will be from publication, usually the same number of years as the after=death part of a composer's copyright, e.g. 50 years in a "life+50" scenario unless, as Philip points out, the country's laws view it as a scientific publication and those are protected for a different number of years.
4) If the publishing company is simply reprinting something in the public domain, and the country doesn't view typesetting as a copyrightable activity (or they aren't typesetting it, they are just photographically reproducing someone else's public domain edition), then the company is producing the sheet music, but has no copyright on it. It remains in the public domain.
bsteltz
Re: When is the publisher who has the copyright
Excelent informations , all this is new for me.
Steltz, Philip regarding to that Buxhetude ( 1637-1707 ) harpsichord works, published in this volume:
" Breitkoft & Härtel - Wiesbaden
Edition Breitkoft Nr.8077
Sämtliche Suiten und Variationen
für Klavier/Cembalo
Dietrich Buxtehude, hrsg. von Klaus Beckmann.
I am a bit confused, since it was published in 1980 or before, so, passed 25 years from the publication, is it in public domain?
That publisher company is set in German, if I am not wrong, so depends of German laws, right? Not of the country where I live in.
Steltz, Philip regarding to that Buxhetude ( 1637-1707 ) harpsichord works, published in this volume:
" Breitkoft & Härtel - Wiesbaden
Edition Breitkoft Nr.8077
Sämtliche Suiten und Variationen
für Klavier/Cembalo
Dietrich Buxtehude, hrsg. von Klaus Beckmann.
I am a bit confused, since it was published in 1980 or before, so, passed 25 years from the publication, is it in public domain?
That publisher company is set in German, if I am not wrong, so depends of German laws, right? Not of the country where I live in.
Re: When is the publisher who has the copyright
No, for your use it will be determined by the laws in the country you are using the music in.
Example: The works of Paul Jeanjean, who died in 1928 are not all public domain in Europe. The works published in his lifetime are, because they came in to the public domain in 1929. But there are works published posthumously, in the 1950s, that are still under copyright in Europe (life+70 or posthumous publication+70).
In the country where I live, even the posthumous publications are in the public domain, since posthumous publication +50 means the posthumous publications came in to the public domain in the early 2000s.
I have a student who has been accepted to do graduate work in Switzerland. She can take photocopies of the music published in Jeanjean's lifetime, because it will be in the public domain there. But she may not take photocopies of the posthumous publications, because it is still under copyright there, even though they were perfectly legal here.
I don't think there is anyone on these forums who knows the finer detail of Brazilian copyright law, or they would probably have posted an answer by now. You probably need to find a lawyer who is well versed in copyright law. You may be able to find one in a university law department that you could simply send an email to, or possibly a university music department would have someone on staff who would be responsible for the department's copyright compliance.
Example: The works of Paul Jeanjean, who died in 1928 are not all public domain in Europe. The works published in his lifetime are, because they came in to the public domain in 1929. But there are works published posthumously, in the 1950s, that are still under copyright in Europe (life+70 or posthumous publication+70).
In the country where I live, even the posthumous publications are in the public domain, since posthumous publication +50 means the posthumous publications came in to the public domain in the early 2000s.
I have a student who has been accepted to do graduate work in Switzerland. She can take photocopies of the music published in Jeanjean's lifetime, because it will be in the public domain there. But she may not take photocopies of the posthumous publications, because it is still under copyright there, even though they were perfectly legal here.
I don't think there is anyone on these forums who knows the finer detail of Brazilian copyright law, or they would probably have posted an answer by now. You probably need to find a lawyer who is well versed in copyright law. You may be able to find one in a university law department that you could simply send an email to, or possibly a university music department would have someone on staff who would be responsible for the department's copyright compliance.
bsteltz
Re: When is the publisher who has the copyright
Ok, I am getting that. I have a lot of lawyers in my family, so, someone can know something about that. 
But in the case o IMSLP, if a score is in public Domains in a country, but not in the other - for example, in PDomain in EUA and Italy, but not in Brazil and France - the score can be uploaded to IMSLP? For an American or Italian person? But not by a Brazilian or French person?
And the download for these people, follows the same argument?
Or the IMSLP blocks the upload and download to everyone, if the score is not in Public Domain in some countries?
But in the case o IMSLP, if a score is in public Domains in a country, but not in the other - for example, in PDomain in EUA and Italy, but not in Brazil and France - the score can be uploaded to IMSLP? For an American or Italian person? But not by a Brazilian or French person?
And the download for these people, follows the same argument?
Or the IMSLP blocks the upload and download to everyone, if the score is not in Public Domain in some countries?
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pml
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Re: When is the publisher who has the copyright
We don’t do any region-specific blocking of contributions: if a work on IMSLP is blocked from downloading, it’s blocked everywhere. If you’re downloading a score from IMSLP·EU — or particularly, if you’re downloading from IMSLP·US — then you should be aware of the appropriate copyright laws of your country. (The scores from IMSLP·US are usually only in the public domain in the United States, so anyone outside the US should not be downloading them. The situation vis-à-vis the scores at IMSLP·EU is rather more complicated, but usually if you are in a life+50 or life +70 years copyright domain these scores are legal.)
As for scanning and uploading scores that are under copyright in your country of origin: generally you shouldn’t be doing that, as it’s an offence in your country, and we do not recommend that you break the law in your own jurisdiction.
Cheers, Philip
As for scanning and uploading scores that are under copyright in your country of origin: generally you shouldn’t be doing that, as it’s an offence in your country, and we do not recommend that you break the law in your own jurisdiction.
Cheers, Philip
Re: When is the publisher who has the copyright
For the specific scores you are looking for, i.e. an edited Buxtehude you must check the status of editors in your country and how much protection they get.pml wrote:The situation vis-à-vis the scores at IMSLP·EU is rather more complicated, but usually if you are in a life+50 or life +70 years copyright domain these scores are legal.)
bsteltz
Re: When is the publisher who has the copyright
I get it. Thanks.