Authorship of 'Vanhal' symphonies Opp. 23 & 25

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peedurr
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Authorship of 'Vanhal' symphonies Opp. 23 & 25

Postby peedurr » Sun Apr 16, 2017 1:07 pm

I would be grateful if anyone has any ideas on the real authorship of the Op. 23 and Op. 25 symphonies attributed here to Vanhal. Grove dismisses all of Op.25 as 'non-authentic', and says that only Op. 23/4 of the earlier set is genuine Vanhal (it is genuine, it's the symphony a2, published as the second of the Op. 18 set in Paris in 1774).

I myself can't identify the actual composer(s) of any of the Op. 25 symphonies, but the second and third movements of Op 23/2 in E flat are identical (apart from no repeat marks) to the second and third movements of Rosetti's Op 3/4 in E flat, which would make this I think the symphony A23/I:5. (The Rosetti Op. 3 set is available here: http://imslp.org/wiki/6_Symphonies,_Op.3_(Rosetti,_Antonio).) The first movement of Op 23/2 could also be by Rosetti, but that would imply two Rosetti symphonies sharing the same two final movements. The incipit of the symphony Op. 23/3 in C matches that of the symphony listed in Anthony van Hoboken's Joseph Haydn catalogue as I:C14 (the 14th C major symphony in the past incorrectly attributed to Haydn), and Sterkel is mentioned as a possible composer.

If anyone could suggest possible composers for any of these works it would be useful, I'm sure. I think these symphonies may be by a mixture of people, as they seem to possess quite different characters.

Sallen112
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Re: Authorship of 'Vanhal' symphonies Opp. 23 & 25

Postby Sallen112 » Tue Apr 18, 2017 1:43 am

Maybe Mozart? Or Christoph Gluck possibly? Maybe some of the Sturm und Drang composers? C. P. E. Bach? J. C. Bach?

tim.willis1685
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Re: Authorship of 'Vanhal' symphonies Opp. 23 & 25

Postby tim.willis1685 » Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:47 pm

Hi Peedur,

You might be interested to see some of the RISM entries for these individual symphonies which also exist in manuscript form. I did incipit searches of only the first movements of most of them - I'm sure there would be more to see if you searched every movement. It looks like Op.23 was also published as op.7 by Hummel, and op.25 as op.8 and 9 (in two groups of 3 - also by Hummel). Op.23/3 is attributed to Michael Haydn in one source, and like a few of his symphonies (I believe) was entered incorrectly into the catalogue of Josef Haydn's works. Interesting to see two of Op.23 attributed to Sterkel in a few sources, and several from op.25 are showing up as works by Dittersdorf. Op Anyway, here are the links, I hope it is useful to you.

Op.23/1. https://opac.rism.info/search?id=190004284
https://opac.rism.info/search?id=455020581 Sterkel
https://opac.rism.info/search?id=456008023
https://opac.rism.info/search?id=300257783
https://opac.rism.info/search?id=400006738 Sterkel
https://opac.rism.info/search?id=400006783
https://opac.rism.info/search?id=551006504

Op.23/23. Michael Haydn https://opac.rism.info/search?id=570002760
https://opac.rism.info/search?id=452005114
https://opac.rism.info/search?id=702004591
https://opac.rism.info/search?id=400237096 Sterkel
https://opac.rism.info/search?id=400006737 Sterkel
https://opac.rism.info/search?id=500028091
https://opac.rism.info/search?id=551006506

Op.23/4. https://opac.rism.info/search?id=450011412
https://opac.rism.info/search?id=450018135
https://opac.rism.info/search?id=190024508
https://opac.rism.info/search?id=551007298
https://opac.rism.info/search?id=551006507

Op.25/1.slow movt. by Dittersdorf https://opac.rism.info/search?id=570004448
https://opac.rism.info/search?id=704002794

Op.25/3 some movts by Dittersdorf https://opac.rism.info/search?id=551006347
https://opac.rism.info/search?id=550266510

Op.25/5 https://opac.rism.info/search?id=400011796 Dittersdorf?
https://opac.rism.info/search?id=250001928 Dittersdorf
https://opac.rism.info/search?id=650002789 Sandel
https://opac.rism.info/search?id=402009772 Dittersdorf
https://opac.rism.info/search?id=402009781 Dittersdorf
https://opac.rism.info/search?id=456007203

Op.25/6 https://opac.rism.info/search?id=850002285 Sighicelli

peedurr
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Re: Authorship of 'Vanhal' symphonies Opp. 23 & 25

Postby peedurr » Wed Apr 19, 2017 6:35 pm

Hi Tim,

That's very helpful information - thank you!


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