Opinions on Carl Maria von Weber's Works

[allegroamabile]

I was wondering what the musical world thinks about this man's music. Since he is one of my favorites, I thought it would be a good idea to post this topic.

best regards

[aldona]

I am not as familiar with Weber's works as I am with other composers of the same period, but what I have heard so far has impressed me a lot.

At the moment his Trio in G Minor for Piano, Flute and Cello (Op.63) is on my list of Top 10 Favourite Pieces. There is something very addictive about it. And I love the dialogue (triologue?) between the 3 instruments, the way they balance and complement each other.

That's my uneducated amateur 2 cents' worth...

Aldona

[allegroamabile]

Don't you love the opening of the last movement? It is so simple yet so profound.....

The reason I post these kinds of topics is because when I gain another person's insight on a certain piece or a certain section of a work, I appreciate the music even more.

[vinteuil]

I think that Weber is seriously underated - Abu Hassan, the Clarinet Concerti, Oberon, Euryanthe, Der Freischutz, and even his piano works are great works. He also takes pride of place as one of the early romantics, and by far the most important.

[allegroamabile]

I couldn't agree more with you perlnerd666.

and his Second Piano Sonata, ahhh......

[sbeckmesser]

by far the most important.

I'd give that accolade instead to Beethoven, the proto-early-romantic. Except for the operas -- and mainly only one of those (Freischutz) -- Weber was not nearly as influential on later music as Ludwig van and was outclassed by him in musical quality in every genre they shared. And this is from a lover of much of Weber's music (such as the chamber and concertante music containing a clarinet as well as the music of the operas, despite their typical hopeless dramaturgy).

That being said, I must also admit the absolutely enormous importance of Freischutz alone, especially for the development of German romantic music.. From its forest-oriented orchestration (with its horn section finding echoes straight through Schumann, Wagner, Brahms, Bruckner, Mahler, Strauss and early Schoenberg) down to the (too-)lengthy sermonizing of the Hermit (echoed by Wagner's King Mark and nearly all the characters in Parsifal as well as Strauss's Jochanaan). And, through Berlioz's adulation, Freischutz had an important, if greatly attenuated, influence on the development of French music as well. And Berlioz, through his self-promoting visit to Russia, had an influence on the development of Russian orchestral music. All of this from Freischutz alone!

Another early-romantic I'd put ahead of Weber in historical importance would be Rossini, who was as influential on the development of Italian opera as Weber was on German opera.

As for piano music, one of Weber's primary genres, let's not forget Beethoven's student and, untimately, amenuensis: Czerny. Despite the pedestrian quality of much of his music (both Beethoven and Dussek are more interesting), he was enormously influential on 19th century pianism, probably as much as Chopin. And just ask any piano student if Czerny still doesn't have an influence even today!

--Sixtus

[allegroamabile]

I agree with Beethoven being the most influential early Romantic composer. I do not think that Romanticism necessarily starts with his Eroica Symphony though. Just take a look at Haydn's oratario, The Creation, especially The Representation of Choas. Its tonal ambiguity and links with Schumann, all fits the Romantic style. Even one of Beethoven most ignored chamber work, Duo "With Two Eyeglasses Obbligatto" for Viola and Cello, also sheds one of the first lights of Romanticism.

It is unfortunate that Mozart died so early on in his life. He probably would have written pieces like Beethoven's late String Quartets ten years earlier.

[KGill]

Rossini, who was as influential on the development of Italian opera as Weber was on German opera.

Incidentally, Rossini also had a disproportionately large influence on Russian opera. For a while there (1820s/30s/possibly 40s), his stuff was something like 90% of what was being produced...

[Lyle Neff]

Rossini, who was as influential on the development of Italian opera as Weber was on German opera.

Incidentally, Rossini also had a disproportionately large influence on Russian opera. For a while there (1820s/30s/possibly 40s), his stuff was something like 90% of what was being produced...

Italians in general influenced Russian opera, beginning in the 18th century. (There was also French.)

[sbeckmesser]

It is unfortunate that Mozart died so early on in his life. He probably would have written pieces like Beethoven's late String Quartets ten years earlier.

For me, in fact, the Romantic Period begins with the chorus "O Isis und Osiris" from Mozart's The Magic Flute, an opera (deliberately) filled with both backward- and forward-looking music. The chorus in question would be stylistically more at home with the prisoners in Beethoven's Fidelio than, say, the choruses in any of Mozart's other operas (except maybe Idomeneo).

Yes, Mozart was getting there. It would be great to see what a rivalry between Mozart and Beethoven would have produced. If only they had antibiotics back then.

[allegroamabile]

Mozart's other operas (except maybe Idomeneo).

Because it has too many notes, right?

[sbeckmesser]

No, because the choruses of Idomeneo can be unusually weighty affairs, just like the choruses in Mozart's music for Thamos (a work that deserves to be heard by all Mozart lovers). Compared to other opera seria of the time, though, Idomeneo does indeed have "too many notes." For me, however, as for Mozart --the whole story has a strong whiff of the apocryphal -- It has just the right number of notes. I'll reserve the "too many notes" descriptor primarily for Rachmaninoff and, secondarily, Hindemith.

--Sixtus

[allegroamabile]

The "too many notes" comment was a reference from the Academy Award winning movie Amadeus, if you didn't notice. I wasn't being serious.

Oh and by the way, the "--Sixtus" could be placed on your signature, for it would be more appropriate to put it there.

[sbeckmesser]

The "too many notes" comment was a reference from the Academy Award winning movie Amadeus, if you didn't notice. I wasn't being serious.

Oh and by the way, the "--Sixtus" could be placed on your signature, for it would be more appropriate to put it there.

I knew it was from Amadeus but I also knew that it as a famous anecdote about Mozart that dates back to around his (Mozart's) time. Shaffer took so much, and so poorly, from the many apocryphal stories about Mozart that arose after he died. But he (Shaffer) did make a good piece of drama/theater out of them, despite the multitude of historical innacuracies and exaggerations.

--Sixtus

[allegroamabile]

So what do all of you think of Haydn's Creation. What about that sunrise, huh?