Baroque Instrumentation/Notation involving Transposing Instruments?

[GaiusRomanus]

Hello,

I have recently used MuseScore to create transcriptions of Baroque-era pieces. So far I have uploaded works which were more or less simple (solo line and continuo). After searching IMSLP's archives I have come across a somewhat more complex piece which I am interested in transcribing. IMSLP lists the scoring as:

• 2 oboes

• bassoon

• 2 trumpets (in D, C)

• 2 horns (in D, E flat, G)

• strings

• continuo

MuseScore (fortunately) has horns and trumpets in these keys, as part of their "Early Music" option. The piece is in D Major, and when I add "Trumpet/Horn in D" to MuseScore the part is written in C (because of transposing). However, the original manuscript writes these parts in D major like the rest of the instruments. When I try to write out the parts, MuseScore makes the notes scarlet, which means they are out of the range of the instrument. The same thing happens when I use "Trumpet in C" (which preserves the D Major key).

The manuscript lists these parts as "Trombe e Corni in (what looks like) Delagolre." Within this I see "re" (D) and "la (G), which make sense with IMSLP's listed scoring. However, there are only 2 parts, and it is unclear if they are both meant to be taken by either trumpets or horns, or a mix of them. The 3rd movement of this work lists both parts as trumpets, though. It is also unclear which keyed horn is meant to be used.

I am not a professional Baroque musicologist/archivist, so forgive me if I do not understand this. During my research of Baroque music I have frequently noticed these transposing issues occurring with trumpets and horns. I do not understand why MuseScore is listing the part as outside the instrument range, and could use some help understanding how Baroque brass notation/instrumentation works.

For reference, the piece is L'incendio di Troia by Pasquale Cafaro (https://imslp.org/wiki/L%27incendio_di_ ... _Pasquale)). I am interested in transcribing the opening sinfonia/overture. If anyone can give their advice, that would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you!

[Notenschreiber]

Isn´t there a possibility in MuseScore to show the score in concert pitch?

[bicinium]

Isn´t there a possibility in MuseScore to show the score in concert pitch?

Indeed:
https://musescore.org/en/handbook/3/concert-pitch

Also, you can change an instrument to any transposition for those cases where the instruments list does not have what you want:
https://musescore.org/en/handbook/3/tra ... nsposition
See also:
https://musescore.org/en/handbook/3/sta ... properties

Regarding the notes marked in red; the only ultimately important thing is that the transcription accurately reflects the source, whether or not the program considers those notes playable or not. For what it's worth, you can adjust the playable range in the staff properties dialog.

As far as I know, trumpets and horns are intended to play an octave apart in that situation. What I think might be happening is that your part is transposed a seventh downward (i.e. like the horn in D) but the playable range is still configured to be that of the trumpets (so the notes are too low); or vice versa, the part is transposed a second upward (i.e. like the trumpet in D) but the playable range is still configured to be that of the horn (so the notes are too high). But again, only the notation matters, and the red notes will just show as black if you export to PDF for instance.

[GaiusRomanus]

Thank you for your responses! I understand what's happening now. I have done some more digging into this and your info seems to be correct.

One more thing: which keyed instrument should I use for the score? Like should I stick with D-Major trumpet/horn for the whole thing, and if not, how do I know when to change it?

Thank you!

[bicinium]

I have looked at the score and honestly came back none the wiser. Assuming that the fundamental tone of a natural trumpet from this era is a written middle C, those low notes are indeed unplayable, and several of the higher notes are not available as harmonics. Regarding the unreadable word, the last letter looks like i to me and the "go" could also be "ss" (compare with Allegro Assai below). At any rate, G is "Sol" and La is actually A, barring any hexachord shenanigans which this piece is too recent for anyway. When in doubt, stick to what you see, although that is difficult when you can't read what it says, and forget about creating (accurate) parts in that case. This page describes an alternate source which may help, provided you can find it (searching the library of congress did no good): https://opac.rism.info/search?id=900010938&View=rism

[bicinium]

Old thread, but I have to rectify my earlier stupidity. The marking is essentially "D la sol re" and indeed a hexachordal designation that conveys both pitch class and octave, and these markings did occur much later than I'd thought; see image B in this page. Also, not only was I wrong about where the fundamental note is in modern trumpet parts (middle C is already the first harmonic, the fundamental is an octave lower and typically not used in brass playing of any kind), I didn't know that natural trumpet parts were notated an octave lower than modern parts with regard to the harmonic series, the same as in horn parts (where this hasn't changed).

To have the correct harmonics, and assuming that the score is written in sounding pitch, the trumpets must be pitched in low D, so a minor sixth lower than the modern B-flat trumpet, whereas the MuseScore D trumpet is an octave higher. To write a historical transposed natural trumpet part, all notes must simply be noted a tone lower than they are now. The horn part would look identical while sounding an octave lower. A part for that low D trumpet using modern conventions would be notated an octave higher from that; modern players are not as used to negotiating those high partials as baroque players must've been!