Italian copyrights on 19th century music

[ams78]

Hi there,
Hoping someone can help me with this one.

I'm trying to get a copy of a piece of French music that is held by an Italian library. This is an edition of 24 etudes published in 1870. The composer died in 1864 and this is his original version of the work and the sole surviving copy as far as I've been able to find out.

In the mid/late 20th century a version was published of this work - however it is incomplete (only 22 out of the 24) and heavily edited (etudes are transposed into new keys etc).

The Italian library is telling me that because of this later edition they are not allowed to copy the 1870s edition. I've never come across this before! This seems to imply that a later publication of an edition of a work has retrospective copyright over an earlier edition?

I'm now going round in circles with the Italian library who just keep saying to me the equivalent of "ah, well you might do things that way in other countries but here in Italy we take copyright very seriously".

Any advice?

Thanks!

[Philidor]

The Italian library is telling me that because of this later edition they are not allowed to copy the 1870s edition.

Has the library said why proposition (a) [existence of 1870 edition] leads, in their view, to proposition (b) [unlawful, under Italian copyright law, to copy 1870 edition]? Perhaps ask the library to quote and source the alleged statute?

Try to stay cool, calm and collected. Don't mention super-magic copyright...

[Choralia]

If the library is in Rome I may go there and try to find a solution.

Max

[Caprotti]

Could you please disclose the name of the composer and the work ???

[matteozenatti]

I live in Italy, and i never found similar restrictions. The law here says that legal rights end 70 years after the artist's death. That's all. But libraries often put limitations to copies following local rules (for instance, to prevent damages to old books using them to have copies); at the end, it depends from who are you talking with. Can i know of what library are you talking about?

[Philidor]

local rules... to prevent damages to old books...

Which is completely fair enough. I'd be furious if, say, the British Library failed to prevent a user damaging a manuscript by shoving it carelessly through a photocopier. I suspect this instance is just some silly mix-up.

[ams78]

Hello everyone,

Wow - thanks for all the responses.

So in answer to the various questions:

The composer is Jacques Francois Gallay (1795-1864). The library is Biblioteca "Armando Gentilucci" in Reggio Emilla.

I totally agree with the view that if the music is in too bad a state to be copied or by copying would risk damage that it shouldn't be copied but they haven't said that.

What they keep on saying is that the existence of a modern edition prevents them from copying the older (and different edition). For example the last email from the library states "Unfortunately, as the opus 37 of Gallay is still available in a modern edition, the publisher holds all the rights for all practical purposes, so it's required his consent for the reproduction." I have several times reiterated to the Biblioteca that this is not the same edition!

I have actually contacted UMP who have published the modern edition. Frustratingly they say that they no longer do (not that I think that would change anything, if they've published that edition recently I would imagine there are still copyright restrictions whether or not they are still publishing it?) and haven't yet replied as to whether they believe that they have any rights to the 1870s edition.

Hope that fills in any gaps!

[Choralia]

Apparently the same edition is available at the library of the conservatory of Sassari, maybe they are more informed about the Italian copyright law...

Max

[Philidor]

... the last email from the library states "Unfortunately, as the opus 37 of Gallay is still available in a modern edition, the publisher holds all the rights for all practical purposes, so it's required his consent for the reproduction."

That's one weird argument. It would mean, for example, that the Open Goldberg Project would be unlawful in Italy, unless the consent of all publishers of "modern editions" had been obtained.

It would mean that no Italian publisher could publish a new edition of any work if that work - say Vivaldi's Four Seasons - was available in a "modern edition" and the publisher of that edition refused to give consent.

I'd be tempted to email UMP to ask if they're aware they've been granted these extraordinary rights!

[Carolus]

I would like to add that one of the core missions of this site is to provide open and clear information on how copyright works and effects the musical works we deal with every day. The statement sent by the library in question displays an appalling ignorance of copyright law and how it applies. As Philidor mentioned, if the assertions of the library were actually true, it would be literally impossible for anyone to produce a new edition of any public domain work without first obtaining permission from your competitors. The legal monopoly granted by copyright statutes expires when the copyright term expires. Talk about a magical super-copyright!