Arranging / rewriting a piece and playing with the orchestra

[HansWamst]

Hello,

I wrote the score of some piece of John Williams' Star Wars sound track, with the help of midi-files and my ears... so it should not be exactly the same piece but it is very close i guess.

My question is, am I allowed (in Germany) to play that piece with the (hobby) orchestra I play in ? I think, it could count as a kind of arrangement, because it's not exactly the same, but I don't really know...

THX for help!

[Yagan Kiely]

Officially it is illegal to arrange it without his permission, especially to play it.

...However, if you are not playing it publicly, or if you are play it non-commercially, no one is likely to care, it is more like an advert for people to buy the soundtrack than anything else. No offense but it is likely that the Symphony Orchestra (London?) on the soundtrack is of better quality (I'm sure you will agree). But, it does advertise the piece.

That said, I still advise not playing it publicly. In you band privately, no one will care (though still technically illegal).

Do it at your (be it small) risk.

Officially, I say, do not do it, but unofficially... it's up to you.

[emeraldimp]

Also, I'm fairly certain that none of us are lawyers (especially not copyright lawyers), so you should probably not take any advice as legal advice.

[Carolus]

It's illegal in all countries with copyright laws to attempt to distribute or sell any arrangement made of a full protected work like the John Williams scores mentioned.

That being said, different countries have different rules regarding 1) the creation of such arrangements (often called derivative works or adaptations) to begin with; and 2) the performance and even recording or broadcast of such arrangements.

It's best to check with a qualified copyright attorney in your country.

[Vivaldi]

That said, would the proper procedure be to contact the composer (John Williams) directly, the agent or the music publisher (eg. Hal Leonard) to obtain permission to arrange and perform the said piece?

[topopianistico]

in italy is still illegal to play copyright music in public even if for free and no profit use.
in italy SIAE governement rules all playing exhibitions and even if not commercial and no profit it need to be registered and paying copyrigth and taxes just because playd in public.

only fi you use for your (your orchestra) use only there is no problem because nobody knows it and it it is not public exhibition.

[Yagan Kiely]

The arrangement it self (I believe) is still illegal.

[Vivaldi]

The other option, of course, is to purchase the full orchestral score of Star Wars itself. I think Sheet Music Plus does sell them. You get the real deal here, as the orchestral score has the original orchestration written by John Williams himself. However, this is going to cost you a lot of money though.

[Yagan Kiely]

Williams didn't orchestrate star wars himself.

Star Wars IV V VI, ET, Indiana Jones - Herbert W. Spencer
Star Wars I - John Neufeld
Star Wars II - Conrad Pope
Star Wars III - Edward Karem

Goblet of Fire - Lawrence Ashmore

Although I haven't checked every movie, it doesn't look like he orchestrates many of his movies...

[Vivaldi]

I stand corrected. I somehow got the impression that Williams composed Star Wars all by himself.
However, Sheet Music Plus does state that John Williams in the composer, and it did not state any other composer in the entry of the full score and parts for Star Wars, although this does not necessarily mean there weren't other composers who collaborated with Williams:

http://www.sheetmusicplus.com/store/smp ... em-_-Title

[Yagan Kiely]

The orchestrator of the original 1977 Star Wars was uncredited on the movie too.
He did compose it all himself*, most film composers do not orchestrate. Zimmer doesn't. Shore, however did.

I can show a place where he ripped off: Sorcerer's apprentice, Dvorak No.9, Pictures at an exhibition, Dvorak No.9 (again), Rite of Spring, Prokovief... etc. etc.

Zimmer was also sued by the owners of the copyright of Holst for Gladiator.

But I see nothing wrong with that at all. They aren't the same just related.

[Vivaldi]

Ah, I understand what you mean. There is a difference between composing and orchestrating. A person may just compose a piece of music (eg. in a piano sketch) but it may be orchestrated by another person. Again, my impression being composing and orchestrating were done by the same person.

[Melodia]

This is a bit off the topic but anyway...

Film orchestration is usually done by someone else for the take of saving time. If a composer has a lot of time (like with Shore on LOTR) or are certain composers that simply never used an orchestrator at all (Bernard Herrmann and Ennio Morricone, and most 'classical' film composers like Prokofiev, Walton, et al), then there won't be an extra orchestrator. But in cases like Williams and others, the orchestrator's job is mostly being a copyist and "filling out" the full score. Others aren't quite as adept at using the orchestra, and thus need more help, but actual composition is still (normally) by the composer (compare, say, Liszt orchestrating Schubert, or Stokowski orchestrating Bach - even with the obvious touches the orchestrator adds, the music is still fundamentally the composer's).

All that is really unrelated to the topic at hand though...


-Lala-

[Vivaldi]

So you mean that even though a different person (the orchestrator) might help with the composer by copying and filling up the score, the main credit would still have to go to the composer, in this case John Williams? I feel some sympathy for those orchestrators whose names are not credited in the movies which use the score.

[Yagan Kiely]

I know that typically, a composer writes a two piano score with additional information. I.e. telling the orchestrator that strings here, trumpet, etc. short hand really.