Percy Grainger's "Warriors" and "Lincolnshire

jdbrown371 · Post by **jdbrown371** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 1:48 am

Somebody just has to post more Grainger to the archive. The Warriors has multiple versions. The most common is a full score for orchestra and 3 pianos, this is what is most often heard in recordings. A versions for two pianos. An orchestral version for 10 (that right... TEN) pianos, including mallets, xylophones etc. Besides these, there are many more works of Grainger that could be put up on the archive. If I had access to these scores I would do it myself. Unless so editor cranked out a new version for a Grainger piece (I don't think this is the case lately) it's all public domain. There should be a public domain version of every piece he composed.

Post by **daphnis** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 2:46 am

Sorry to disappoint you, but you're wrong. Grainger died in 1961, which makes NONE of his works public domain in either Canada or the EU, regardless of when they were published. And only those published before 1923 would be public domain in the US, and among those works there does not exist ANY arrangement of either The Warriors or Lincolnshire Posy. The earliest publication of The Warriors was for 2 pianos, 6 hands in 1923 and for Lincolnshire Posy in 1940 for military band. Grainger's works will not fall into the public domain until 01/01/2012, and only then in Canada.

Post by **Carolus** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 8:34 am

Grainger (a US citizen from 1918 - making his works ineligible for GATT restoration) was extremely sloppy about renewing his copyrights, as was his widow Ella. Both Lincolnshire Posy and The Warriors lapsed into public domain in the USA, and appeared in the Kalmus and Masters catalogs as reprints shortly after expiration. My advice is the double check the Kalmus and Masters catalogs first beore attempting to upload to IMSLP, and make sure that things are uploaded to the US server. All works published before 1923 are free in the US, and a fair number of those issued afterward are as well.

Some works were renewed, however, so checking the reprint houses is an absolute must before even attempting an upload here - a point I cannot emphasize enough.

Post by **daphnis** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 1:27 pm

Except I don't see any version of Lincolnshire Posy in either the Master's or Kalmus catalogs. I only see editions published by Schott and Schirmer. As for The Warriors, I do see a Kalmus edition (cat. 2036) for the orchestral score as well as a Master's edition (cat. 9074) arr. for concert band.

Thanks for the extra info. regarding Grainger. I didn't know his estate forgot to renew the copyrights! How can we know exactly which works are public domain that were published 1923 and beyond?

Post by **Carolus** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 6:40 pm

The 2006-2007 Masters (printed) catalog has it on page 85, catalog #B3055 (the B# means it's a Kalmus imprint - all Kalmus band titles are sold through the Masters catalog). About 20 years ago, Frederick Fennell did an edition of Lincolnshire Posy that was issued by Ludwig - which is not public domain. That's how Ella's failure to renew surfaced. Kalmus reprinted the Schirmer/Schott London "compressed full score." If you look at any Grainger piece published after ca.1910, the copyright notice always reads "Copyright 19XX Percy Aldridge Grainger" - the publisher is NOT listed as copyright claimant. While advantageous from the royalty standpoint, it had the downside of making Grainger and his heirs legally responsible for keeping track of all renewals.

For works published after 1922: Apart from having actual physical access to the volumes issued by Library of Congress (Catalog of Copyright Entries), the only way to tell is to check the catalogs of the reprint houses. While it's true that Stanford University has put up a database compiled from (some) of those volumes, they excluded the music (Class E) entries. Scanning the Class E volumes of CCE would be a worthwhile, but enormous, project.

Post by **daphnis** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 3:45 am

Ah yes, you're right. I see it now...they took the 1940 printing of the Schott engraving plate #46150 (41 page, "condensed" score for wind band) for the reprint.

It also looks like the original ballet score for The Warriors is in public domain as it was reprinted by Kalmus (cat. A 2036, 112 pages) from the Schott edition c1926 plate #31023.

I really must get my hands on the latest Masters catalog to see what else has been reprinted...