Finger/pedal indications--composer's or editor's?

[Rogerg]

In any edition of piano music other than a manuscript there is usually an editor indicated. When finger and pedal indications are present but there is no attribution given to either the composer or the editor is there a general rule one can assume as to their source?

[jossuk]

In my experience, composers rarely put in fingerings, so it can generally be presumed that fingerings are editorial. Even Henle Verlag, which prints "Urtext" label on its many publications, will include the occasional finger number; in a few instances, there will even be two editions of the same work, one edition sparsely fingered, the other quite liberally marked.

As for pedal markings; the Urtext editions (Henle, Peters, Bärenreiter among others) are usually quite reliable in preserving the intentions of a composer. One publisher (Alfred) often indicates editorial additions/suggestions quite deliberately by printing them in grey. Certain editions of standard works compiled by composer/pianists (e.g., Busoni, Godowsky, Bartok) will often not bother to distinguish between original and editorial markings, since the mere existence of such a personalized edition overrides the need to comment. And some older editions (G. Schirmer comes most immediately to mind) are riddled with unannotated editing.

I would add that the above applies primarily to editions of the works of deceased composers. Published composers still alive and writing have little need (or desire) for the editorial activities of others, other than to catch mistakes or inconsistencies prior to actual publication.

[Eric]

well, it depends- the occasional autograph manuscript by a good instrumentalist/composer (very good in both) (generally post-Classical but not always just the most recent of composers, as I recall), for strings or piano, might have fingering, slurring/phrasing (for instruments generally etc., mostly for strings and winds I'd say...), and fingering- I agree that these tend to be added by others on the whole (hopefully with thought to how phrasing, for instance, can add or detract from the articulation of a piece...) - tend to but not always.


(Will double-check - fortunately with more and more manuscripts, some of them autograph, scanned in, this is easier to check. Some of them seem to be autographs but are just ms-copies with the composer's name written in by the copyists (who must of course, with manuscripts, be editors at least somewhat- manuscripts always need some figuring and interpretation... can say from experience), but there are sometimes ways to confirm/disconfirm that at least tentatively...)

[Rogerg]

What prompted my asking this question was noticing some odd fingering in Franz Liszt's piano transcription of the "Waltz from the Opera Faust" by Gounod:
(copy between the arrows and paste to browser)
<http://imslp.org/wiki/Valse_de_l%27op%C ... 28Liszt.29>

In the second theme he sometimes crosses 2 over 3 or 3 over 2 but most unusual involves a recurring short motif of 6 notes up the A major scale in the left hand. I think most pianists would play this: 543212 or 432132 but he uses 323232. My first thought was whether this is actually Liszt's fingering, an editor's or a misprint. But IMSLP has three different editions and they all show the same fingering so it must actually be Liszt's. Why? Within the measure is the term "non legato" so could it be to facilitate this effect? Considering the source (Liszt), it may be worthy of study.

[jossuk]

I agree that the fingering is likely to be Liszt's. Given the "non legato" marking in the place you mention, there would be no real need to cross over the fingers; simply moving the hand would place the groupings of 2nd and 3rd finger appropriately. It would definitely be interesting to observe how different artists perform this passage.