Nocturne v. Notturno

Any posts related to the categorization and standardization of IMSLP

Moderators: vinteuil, Davydov

Post Reply
NLewis
active poster
Posts: 345
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2010 2:25 am
notabot: 42
notabot2: Human

Nocturne v. Notturno

Post by NLewis »

We currently label the 18th century 'notturnos' as 'nocturnes', but they are not typically the same genre. The notturno is much closer to a serenade (and the terms were often used interchangeably in the 18th century), while the term "nocturne" as first used by John Field and later by Chopin & co is typically a solo piano work. Perhaps they should be separated.
Davydov
Copyright Reviewer
Posts: 816
Joined: Sun Aug 17, 2008 8:31 am
notabot: 42
notabot2: Human
Contact:

Re: Nocturne v. Notturno

Post by Davydov »

The MLA list treats Nocturnes and Notturnos as being synonymous (even if the form itself may have evolved over time), but if they ever change their minds we can look at it again.
NLewis
active poster
Posts: 345
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2010 2:25 am
notabot: 42
notabot2: Human

Re: Nocturne v. Notturno

Post by NLewis »

This may be true, although we have deviated from MLA before. And I'm not sure that MLA decision is the most well considered; they really are not the same thing.
Notenschreiber
active poster
Posts: 727
Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2007 12:31 pm

Re: Nocturne v. Notturno

Post by Notenschreiber »

In MGG the two notions are also treated as synonymous, nocturne being the more modern one. Mostly used for piano pieces, but also used in other contexts like Brittens
"Nocturne for Tenor and a small orchestra" op.60, 1958. Before Field the name nocturne has been used in a compostion of H. Jadin "3 nocturnes ...p. pioanoforte et flute...
(1812).
NLewis
active poster
Posts: 345
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2010 2:25 am
notabot: 42
notabot2: Human

Re: Nocturne v. Notturno

Post by NLewis »

May be true, although I assure you that the genres are very different things.
Notenschreiber
active poster
Posts: 727
Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2007 12:31 pm

Re: Nocturne v. Notturno

Post by Notenschreiber »

The problem is the following. If you would install a category "Nocturnes", you will find "Notturnos", so called by the composer, which fit in your category of Nocturnes.
And vice versa. I see your point, but a division of all Nocturnes and Notturnos in two disjunct subsets seems not to be practicable.
NLewis
active poster
Posts: 345
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2010 2:25 am
notabot: 42
notabot2: Human

Re: Nocturne v. Notturno

Post by NLewis »

I'm not really suggesting to make a new category for notturnos, but the 18th century notturno is really signifigantly closer to the "serenade" genre than the 19th century "Nocturne" genre. It's unforunate that the terms are so similar but reflect entirely different genres.
Post Reply